#187 – GST recap and The State of Sales Mindsets

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Full episode transcript: 

​Please note that transcription is done by AI and may contain errors.

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Will: Hi Phil. How you doing?

Phil: I'm doing very well. Thanks Will. Very nice to uh, see you again. And I think this is probably going to be our last, um, podcast of the year.

Will: Yeah, we've, you know, it, it is December. It is that time of year where people are in sort of planning and wrapping up the end of the year and it's all quite busy.

Um. But, uh, and for us, really, we just wanted to take a moment, I think, to reflect on, um, the global sales transformation event that we had now about, was it about two weeks ago now? Seems, seems a while ago. Yeah. Why, Why don't you just start by, um. Letting the audience know what, what is GST? What is, um, what's it all about?

Phil: Well, GST um, was set up. I think we were looking at it, uh, uh, when we were running it, running the event. But it, I mean, this is our 20th now that we've run. Um, we have. Run GSTs, not just in London, but in other parts of the world, but, um, as well. So, uh, 15 years I think we've been running it at the London Stock Exchange.

And for us, the reason why we created GST was a kind of thought leadership event where we, um, brought together a number of, you know, key influences if you like, uh, or people that. That would challenge the way we think of sales. And, and so yeah, it was a thought leadership piece and, and it, it was connected quite strongly with the academic side of what we do.

Um, we wanted to promote professionalizing sales and, you know, we felt that we needed to put a stake in the ground and say, right, we want to professionalize sales. We want it to. A symbolic venue and London Stock Exchange is so symbolic. You know, it's the center of commerce in, in the uk and, uh, yeah. And it's kind of grown from, uh, you know, smallish, you know, small attended events to very large attended events.

I think we had a record turnout this year of, of, of 95, uh, which is the most we've had. Um, it was almost at full capacity as well. So yeah, it's been a, it's been an incredible journey.

Will: I find it interesting that, you know, 15 years ago when you had the vision of what GST should be, and you called it the Global Sales Transformation event.

Yeah. Um, because 15 years ago. Transformation was, um, you know, a hot topic and it really is still that today. And if anything, I think, um, you know, over the years, transformation has become such a key buzzword. Um, yeah. When talking to clients and now with the advent of ai. And how AI is transforming industries and what it means for the sales profession.

You know, the, the broad, you know, um, theme of global sales transformation is as relevant today as it was 15 years ago. Um, if not more so potentially. And,

Phil: um, I, I think we, we saw the word transformation. Um, it certainly wasn't used as much then as you as, as you rightly say, as it, uh, as it is now. Um, but we felt that it needed to.

The way in which we look at sales need to be through the le lens of sort of fundamental change. And I don't think we need to go into the debate about the difference between change and transformation, but it is, uh, you know, there's, there's a slight danger. It's an, it's an overused term now that everyone is talking about transformation without really.

Understanding what is meant by the word transformation. Mm-hmm. Um, and for us it's, it's, um, it goes quite deep. It, it often requires a profound change of mindset and approach. And as you rightly say, I think that. Challenges that the sales department, sales businesses face, and in fact any business irrespective of whether it's sales, um, you know that we are operating in unprecedented.

Times have change, uh, with the opportunities that come with that. Uh, but of course the threats as well. So yeah, it's still very relevant, the topic transformation.

Will: Absolutely. And, um, transformation as we know it is irreversible, isn't it? And when you see, uh, over time, over, you know, decades arguably you, you see events that shape the way.

We work and how industries change. You know, we had key eras, you know, the internet era in 1997 or whatever it, whenever it was. And you know, now the topic, the buzz, you know, the buzzword everyone's talking about is ai. Yeah. And, um, so I think yes, as we move into this new AI era, um, we are seeing transformation.

We're seeing the words being used a lot and, and it's probably being used correctly. Um, in terms of that this is a fundamental transformation. It's irr, irreversible, it's, um, it's gonna impact all of our roles and industries. Um. And we're just at the beginning of it, which is very exciting. Um, but also, it, it, it is, the reason why we're talking about it right now is because there was the, the theme of the event.

Yeah. Um, so the theme we had was human connection in the age of ai and, um. I think maybe if you could comment Phil, on, you know, you came up with this topic this time last year. Um, so you had the, you had the foresight to think, well, this is something that, you know, most sales directors or senior sales professionals is gonna be really, uh, they're gonna really care about.

Um, but yeah. How do you, yeah. You know, why do you think this was a, was such an important theme for uh, GST this year?

Phil: Well, I think that the, there's. The, the wave, um, you could almost call it, uh, the tsunami wave because it was so powerful of AI, really hit when, you know, chat. GBT came onto the market, which is at the beginning of the previous year and, uh, and has really sort of taken the world by storm.

I mean they, the speed at which, GPT was being adopted was unprecedented in terms of millions of users downloading the app, so we knew that something phenomenal was taking place and was generating a huge amount of interest. I think that coupled with that is this kind of fear that kind of exists about what is our function, what is our purpose?

What is the purpose of us human beings when we're confronted with the extraordinary intelligence of artificial intelligence? And what does that mean? That coupled with also, you know, there was so much fake news. Uh, we've seen the emergence of things like BB, C verify, you know, which is, um, clearly there's an appetite for, you know, what is the source of the truth.

And so you've got this artificial in intelligence and, you know, large learning mo uh, frameworks for, you know, driving. The way AI can be adopted and used. You've got automation, you've got all of these different factors. Um, and I mean, I don't know if others feel the same way, but I, I felt as though, you know, you know, slightly sort of disconnect with what on earth is going on in the world.

What is the purpose of us as human beings in this world in which we've got these incredibly powerful tools that can potentially, um, take over, you know, arguably a lot of the. Functions that we would otherwise, you know, be doing, whether it's research or developing new frameworks. There's so many applications of the tools.

So I kind of, we felt, we felt it's important that we start to. Come to the surface of this, uh, using the analogy of waves. And so you sort of come up to the surface and take a deep breath and start to really question. Now we know more about AI and get a sense of its future direction. What is the purpose of the human in this?

Stage of ai, um, and of course within the context of sales. So what does it mean for the way in which we engage, embrace the technology? We use it, but we use it in the right way and we use it to help further, if you like the. Profession that we are, you know, professionalizing sales.

Will: Yeah. And I think going back to sort of this time last year as well, um, we were seeing a lot in the news companies restructuring, um, Microsoft, SAP, Amazon, um, yeah.

You know, and, and roles being really impacted by, by this, this wave of AI that's taking over. Um, so yeah, it's, uh, it, it was a really. Um, relevant, yeah. Events and, and, um, what I really like, like the most, we had some amazing keynote speakers. Um, so just, um, yeah, we had, um. Your research, which we're gonna come onto, uh, we announced Alia's partnership with Aviso.

Yeah. Uh, we had Julian Birkinshaw. So anyone who's a master's or a undergrad student currently on one of our programs, you might recognize his name, but fantastic to get his perspective on, um, the lens in which we should view ai. Um, as well as master's students like, um, Jessica from SAP and, uh, God, who else?

Phil, I'm missing someone.

Phil: Well, we've had amazing MCC panel with Samantha Vessels and with, uh, Sam George from Samantha Vessels president of Box, and Samantha George, you. Royal Mail implementing a very complex CRM system. Talk about transformation as well as, uh, Gareth Abel, who's one of the people that we interviewed as part of the global research project.

And of course we had, um, Ryan, Ryan Sullivan there as well, sharing his insights around this whole, you know, sort of relationship management topic in which he's one of the world's leading experts, I'd say, which linked very much back to the human connection. Absolutely.

Will: And I think that's just one thing that makes GST so special is that we're able to get such a broad perspective on a topic, um, yeah.

Uh, that, that shared by thought leaders to a room full of thought leaders as well. So you are always gonna get, uh, quite a energized room. And certainly in the networking sessions there was a huge buzz. Um, I think so it's, uh. It was a, a really positive day. And, um, just wanted to gather your sort of takeaways or your favorite parts of GST.

I know you were, you were hosting it, Phil.

Phil: Quite interesting when you host an event like that because, you know, so focused in on the mechanics of the day and the timings as well. Um, and you're standing up there sort of. Sensing the audience and, and, and, and listening to the speakers, you know, share. But I love the diversity of the topics and also the slight edginess of the topics because we had, on the one hand, we had sort of a visa, and there's no doubt, um.

In Trevor Rodriguez, Templar, you know, the CEO of um, Avis, one of the world's leading experts around how to use, um. AI in the revenue intelligence space talking, um, obviously with huge amount of enthusiasm about what they've been working on over the last 11 years. But, you know, and it was brilliant, you know.

To get his perspective, of course with Lenovo as part of the panel. You know, also talking about the benefits they've found by using Eviso technology. But you know, coming back to the diversity kind of theme, we also had. Professor Julian Birkinshaw, um, sort of in a way do a bit of a reality check by saying, you know, yes, AI is very disruptive, but you know, from his perspective, you know, the, um.

Whilst the disruption takes place, uh, traditional, well established businesses are really well placed, uh, in order to take, uh, make use of this sort of technology. And so it's not a question of, you know. Use AI and go outta bus, you know, or, or you'll go outta business What his message was, there's, there's some serious benefits in using AI for established businesses.

Of course, you need to adapt and change, but you know, there's good historical evidence to show that companies have been very good at doing that, I can't remember when his, his, uh, his data point was, but I loved that. Um. I, I loved the human touch, you know, as well, you know, Jessica sharing with us, her, her master's project was amazing using the theme of the conductor of an orchestra.

She didn't let on that. She's a very accomplished pianist herself, um, at the event. But this idea of orchestrating resources is a very important theme.

Will: Okay. So yeah, Phil, for you, what, what were the highlights for GST?

Phil: you know, I loved every speaker for different reasons. I loved the diversity and the slightly edginess of the content that we had. Um, you know, we had, you know, the great. AI advocating Aviso team there with Trevor, one of the world's leading experts I would say, on AI and how it's been used, uh, to enhance revenue intelligence systems.

And then we had sort of contrasted to that professor Julian Birkinshaw talking about. About, um, the way in which companies have embraced technology over the years, and whilst AI is being disruptive, there was a very positive and optimistic kind of view as to how AI would be. Integrated into, uh, business as usual.

And he was saying that, you know, internet, yes. When that was launched, we thought it was gonna change the world, but has it really, you know, um, and that was a very, it was a very positive message because I think that in this sort of dystopian world in which we live, it's good to have a sense of. Of realism about what the new technologies are gonna do and how quickly are they going to alter society.

And then we had these wonderful sort of human touches of Jessica talking about a master's project, how she used the analogy of being the conductor of an orchestra and how she sees. And gets insights from the way effective orchestras work and the rhythm and the tempo, and the pace and the cadence, and has brought that into her leadership practice.

Yeah, and the, you know, the brilliant panel discussions we had taking place as well where we're able to develop leadership with CRM systems, with Gareth being quite provocative about what customers look for from salespeople. And it, you know, just, I just loved the variety of the different speakers. We had all experts in their own rights, all totally, all totally, um, authoritative in their domain area.

Yeah. Um, so yeah, it was great. High energy.

Will: I. I think the, the network sessions, again, are, are really valuable, um, as well. Just, it's a, it is an opportunity just for people to reconnect with each other. And I do know that some of them we see once a year, they always come to GST. They always come back. They always come back.

You know, ho hopefully, I mean, hopefully it always leaves people feeling like they've learned something. They've connected. Um. And they've leave inspired, right? Yeah. It's not, it is not all. Um, yeah, certainly under the topic of ai, it's not all, uh, negative as a, our jobs are still safe.

Phil: Yeah. But also, I think they would've seen, they would've got inspiration from, uh, what AI can do to help, uh, improve productivity.

And you could tell from in a number of the people. Sort of setting up further discussions to explore, you know, the, what Avis was was doing. So, yeah. So even though you had the disruptive element of AI being of concern, you also had the benefits of ai Yeah. Being covered and uh, clearly quite transformational I think, in how sales teams can start to think about using AI to improve productivity and efficiency.

Will: Well, absolutely. And I mean, it is a topic that we ourselves are spending a lot of time discovering. Yeah. And, uh, and figuring out how, um, you know, how we develop ourselves in terms of our ai, AI capability. Yeah. Um. I know, you know, going back to the Aviso discussion, maybe you wanna touch on, um, the Ai, ai sales mindset coach.

Um, that was announced. Yeah.

Phil: It's, it's been, yeah. What's been really interesting with the partnership with Aviso is. Um, is taking the mindset framework that, that we've developed and looking at training the agen, um, coaching agents that are within the Avis. Platform, or in fact, it will be a new agent that's being created to be able to look at any kind of customer interaction, customer conversation through the lens of the four positive differentiating mindsets.

And yeah, so it's very exciting to kind of launch the progress we've been making in that respect. Um, and it's something that I've personally been involved in. I, I. It's been remarkable, the speed at which we've been able to get to a point where with even 90% accuracy on the. Sales mindsets, we've seen the agent interpret customer live customer conversations.

Um, and what's neat about it, it's not just analyzing, you know, is the conversation demonstrating authenticity or client centricity or whatever it might, you know, whichever. One of the four key mindsets we're talking about was actually making suggestions also about how something could have been rephrased.

So next time we have that conversation, you can start to really think about, um, and learn from previous conversations that have taken place. And I think what it's given me an appreciation for is literally the scale at which. Are interested in developing a sales culture or a sales support culture around the, around the mindset.

Um, a scale at which there can be a. Um, support given to analyze how are we doing currently doing, but also coaching on what could we be doing differently to get potentially a better result, better success rate with our clients. So that scale, um, angle for me is incredibly exciting and can see all sorts of possibilities for future research, um, linking to, certainly to ROI.

And performance. Uh, so yeah, it's a very, very exciting relationship and, uh, very pleased. We have this rather special partnership with Avis.

Will: When do you think we'll be able to, um, sort of test the, the AI agents and, you know, if people are interested in understanding? That's a good question. Its capability.

Phil: Yeah. I think that we are in a proof of concept phase right now. Will and, uh, we've just gone through another iteration of training and we are gonna get the feedback on that this week. We hope or early next week. And if we feel that we are 97% to what we would consider to be an, an accurate analysis of a conversation through those lenses, um, we're then going to move into a phase of that, um, proof of concept, which is, um, how can we, you know, create some.

Uh, easy to use sort of dashboards that, that the, um, you know, business success teams or the users of the product would get benefit from. For example, trend analysis of conversations, analysis by customer, um, uh, what would managers like to, to see? So we're kind of moving into how, how is the data going to be presented?

And I think that's gonna be fairly quick, to be honest. So. I'd like to think by the end of January we might be in a position of, of actually going live with that proof of concept. Um, certainly it's going to be tested internally before you know it, it, it goes live. But, um, you know, for us it's important that the agent.

Does what we says it will do. You know, it coaches in the right way and that, uh, we give people the insights that they would find useful, uh, in their day-to-day

Will: work. Absolutely. I mean, it, it is taking us to a different level because quite often we encourage, um. Uh, people on our training programs or in our business school, um, to evaluate their own mindsets against a survey, which is Yeah.

You know, taken in a point in time. Um, yeah. Whereas this is, you know, this is live.

Phil: This is

Will: track four by seven.

Phil: Yeah,

Will: exactly. So, um, so it's gonna be really fascinating to see how sales professionals respond given different situations, different times of day, even. I mean, there's so much to it that we, you can extrapolate from the data.

Yeah. Um, that is, it really is gonna be fascinating.

Phil: And I mean, the other, one of the other neat features that we're building is the chance to role play. Yeah. Using the agent as well. So you, you have a chance to kind of practice something before you deliver it. And again, you can get feedback through those, those mindsets on what you're seen to be practicing.

Um, so yeah, it's, it's, it, it, it's a very, very powerful tool. Yeah. So we're gonna be very excited to launch it soon,

Will: and I think it, it ties in quite well. Um, with the global research project that you've been doing together with our, joint, our partners, yeah, yeah. And with our, with our partners around, around the sales mindsets.

Um, so the, the last time you did the research project was part of your doctorate, wasn't it? Phil, yeah. which took you all over the world. Identifying the values that customers look for. That was in 2008, 2009, roughly.

Phil: It was published then, but the, I mean, the actual research took place, you know, sort of even before Yeah.

Proceeding that, so, yeah. Yeah, it was, it was actually brilliant to go back to. To that exercise again, and, and, and, and to reflect on has, has, uh, the benchmark changed? Um, are there any new emerging mindsets? So yeah, it was really, really nice to do. And also it was great to do it this time in collaboration with other researchers.

Will: Mm-hmm.

so why don't, why don't we take a step back. So throughout this year Yeah. You've been, um. You've reopened the research just to make sure and to validate whether or not the sales mindsets of authenticity, client centricity, tactful audacity, and proactive creativity are still as relevant in today's world as it was when you originally did it.

Yeah. And so, um, why don't you tell us a bit more around your approach. Okay. Um, who you've been interviewing and surveying, et cetera. And any key findings that you've had through, through this throughout this year.

Phil: Well, if we start off with the, um, the kind of approach, um, so the first element of the approach was that we wanted to take pretty much exactly the same approach in terms of questions that we asked all those years ago.

and also the, you know, one of the key findings all those years ago is the percentage of salespeople that sell to customers in a way that they want. So we wanted to kind of be able to do this correlation of the data over a period of time. Um, but we also wanted to capture the phenomenon that is technology now.

if it didn't come up naturally in conversation, we wanted to get perspectives around the extent to which buyers actually saw technology affecting the way they engage with salespeople. Did they want to engage with salespeople? Given that you know that, that so much of. Buying is now done online. So we wanted to sort of get a sense also, um, from, from, from the buyers around the impact that technology in particular is having.

so yes, the framework was exactly the same, but what what was different were maybe some of the more leading questions around technology that we wanted to ask, but also the fact that this was now a collaboration. It wasn't just me asking the questions, it was, uh, one of our master's students, uh, Stefan Froberg who's the MD for SAP in Finland as part of his, uh, final master's dissertation, he was wanting to research this topic with us, but also our partners in Spain with development systems and Praxi. They have their senior consultants engage in some of the interviews of, of customers, and that enabled us to take us into, uh, different.

Different regions of the world. Um, I must of course mention our partners in South Korea with the, the assist Business School, also responsible and, you know, with links with a lot of big Korean companies over there with operations around the world taking part in, in the research. So, um, yeah, the, the team of researchers meant that there was absolutely no bias you know, the questions were the same, but each of us, you know, sort of asked the same questions and we pulled our research findings together and, and then started to evaluate what the findings were within the construct of the mindsets.

Will: I, I would imagine this time round it being much quicker to do the research than when you're doing it. Yeah,

Phil: I'd like to say it. Well, the research itself took the same amount of time because each of the research interviews was, you know, roughly 45 minutes to an hour, and we did over 50 of those interviews.

But of course, what, Enabled us to do the analysis so much more quickly was the thematic analysis was very much helped using, uh, technology. Um, and of course we, we used that coupled with our own, reflections to start to make sense of the findings of the research, which we did.

Um, but I would say that the other thing that was really different about this time round is we had the benefit of all The sales mindset survey data. That we've collected over the last five years.

And we had over 1200, Surveys completed from people from all over the world.

And we actually fed that into the research report or the white paper report that, um, that we've now produced. you know, it's a made for a very different take on, uh, what was initially the production of You know, when I go back to my doctorate, it was just a framework at that point. based on the research, this is now sort of being able to evaluate the business impact of the sales mindsets as well as are there any new mindsets that we should take into account?

Will: And, and were there? Were there any kind of sub values that you were surprised to emerge through the research?

Phil: There was one that I think is quite transformative in the sense of, really making us think more deeply about, one in particular the mindsets, but a lot of the thematic analysis themes that came from looking at all the research data pointed to the relevance of the mindsets that were developed all those years ago.

So integrity. You know, um, client centricity, um, curiosity, collaboration. You know, these were outputs of the thematic analysis, courage, and it, it's quite easy to take these words that came outta the thematic analysis and put them within the, uh, four mindsets construct that we'd built all those years ago.

Um, but there were some interviews that we did that really provoked some deeper thinking around the topic of authenticity. Um, which is, I think, influenced by the artificial intelligence wave that we're currently sort of surfing, if you like, and so we've come up with this, um, this description of authenticity being intellectual authenticity as being the first of the four, defining mindsets. And, and I think the reason why this word intellectual has surfaced is because buyers have used this word themselves. You know, they were saying in some of the interviews, they're looking for intellectual honesty.

And they didn't want intellectual dishonesty, you know, and these were different people making some sort of commentary about what they really sought from relationships with salespeople. Um,

Will: but what, what does that mean? What does intellectual authenticity mean?

Phil: Well, they're, they're looking for original thinking.

so if we focus on the word authenticity to begin with, you know, that's very much connected with acting, with integrity, uh, honesty, transparency. So, uh, the word authenticity is very much linked to, if you like, a, a moral code of conduct, which is. giving customers the perception.

They're dealing with someone who's not talking from a script that someone who is, who they seem to be when they turn up. But the word intellectual, is something that says, yes, we want people to be authentic when they turn up, but we also want them to think. To use reasoning skills to reflect critically on problems that we have and therefore come up with solutions.

it's a word that kind of really resonated when we started to do the thematic analysis because we've often said with our academic programs that what we're doing is we're teaching people how to think on these programs, which is reflective practice, if you like, and to hear customers use this word, intellectual honesty sort of made us connect this, dimension of a toolkit that we think is very important for salespeople to have with the academic programs that we also run.

Um, so this word intellectual. Authenticity is a counterbalance balance to artificial intelligence. So we've got intellectual authenticity being the human side, and we've got artificial intelligence being the technology side. How intellectual authenticity connects with artificial intelligence is where you're gonna get magic happening.

So for us, it was a rather beautiful way of connecting the research from buyers. With this new wave of technology that we're now embracing from an AI perspective.

Will: so this is, I mean, it is definitely an, an evolved value that we've seen. Yep. So with what we are from your research, it's safe to say that fundamentally the values.

You know, they're still relevant, but authenticity is evolving.

Phil: Yeah. And I think I would say that it, it, you know, it's quite interesting 'cause 1, 1, 1 of the things that we've noticed with the mindset survey data is if you look at averages overall, and it, it could be helpful to see a slide of this data.

And I think, uh, there's the opportunity to look at slides when we post this on, on YouTube. but when you start to look at. the performance across all four mindsets across 1200 respondents. You see the average score's actually been quite close to what we would consider to be in the winner's circle, but what we've realized is that only 10%, around 10% of all the respondents score over the 80% score.

Across all four mindsets. So you could have some that self analyze themselves as having very high scores of proactive creativity and tactful audacity, but a very low score comparatively on authenticity and client centricity. We've come to realize that unless you have over 80% across all four, it doesn't matter if you've got high scores on proactive creativity and tactical audacity, you, open yourselves up to the risk of clients not seeing you as being authentic.

Therefore, those values, those mindsets that you have, will not land in the right way. So this is something else that surfaced from the analysis of all the data is the importance of actually having a balance of high scores across all four mindsets.

Will: We, we always, um, suggest that you need to have authenticity and client centricity in order to establish trust.

Phil: We do. Yeah. We always say that and it's like a hierarchy. Um, but what we haven't, I think spelled out, but we of course, doing so now is the importance of, of getting that winner's circle score across all four. And that should be the goal. Mm-hmm. That should be the goal in the way we start to think, we start to act, we start to behave.

Um, and I think that's the, you know, that's the nuanced challenge that we face moving forward is how are we going to equip sales organizations with the capability to be in the winner circle across all four of the mindsets all the time.

Will: And going back to your research, when you, again originally did it, one of the key findings was that only 10% of sales professionals sold in the way that clients want to be sold to.

are we working with the same kind of minority? Sales professionals getting it right, or has that figure shifted? Um, can you share some insights from the research you've done? Yeah,

Phil: so, so I think there's some good news on that front will, which is that. When we did the first round of the research, 80% of all the respondents that we interviewed and there were sort of 89, I think that took part in the original research we did, said that less than 10% of salespeople sold in a way that they really want.

The figure that we've got now is less than 30% sell in a way that they want. So my sense is that there has been definitely a marked improvement in the perceptions of how sellers sell compared to those years ago. Um, and I, I, I think this sits quite well with me because I've always felt we sort of bashed poor salespeople over the head for that figure.

And it, it's still not good enough. You know, it's still not where it needs to be, but there's definitely been an, an improvement according to customers. and the buyers that we've interviewed, you know, range from, you know, heads of procurement right through to, you know, even the chairman of fairly large PLCs.

Um, so yes, there's still room for improvement, but, but the standards to us have definitely improved over the last 15 years. And, you know, that makes me feel that yes, the sales profession or sales enablement is, is moving the needle in the right direction. Uh, but it still still needs to move forward.

But there has been progression.

Will: And I think that was one of my key takeaways from GST. Yeah. Um, was that with all these AI tools and, um, training that's now available, the. Standard of a sales professional is going to rise because they are being coached, they're being sort of monitored in a sense.

So. You will see a rise in the sort of sales behaviors that customers wanna see. Yeah. Um, but one thing that stood out from GST is going back to the human element and it's making sure that, the way that you engage and build relationships and, Establish trust with your clients, uh, through intellectual authenticity. Um, and the mindsets, for example, is gonna be such a key point of differentiation. and it's something that many people spoke about during GST.

Phil: Yeah. Yes. They, they did. Um, yeah, so, so the, the, the human connection, I mean, I, I was interested just to know from buyers, you know, how important they felt that human connection was in the sales process.

Because we'd seen the McKinsey report that had suggested that even for very high value B2B sales, Projects that, you know, the trend is definitely going to be having no contact, you know, with salespeople and buyers actually said, there's one quote that stood out for me, which was, I could not stand in front of my CEO about a, a big project that we've implemented with the CEO questioning the fact that I had not met in person, you know, the team of people that we're having to engage with, with this new project. Particularly if something should fail in its execution and, and that I think that's true. I think people still need that human connection. Um, and that, that's really important. But I'd just like to make one other comment, which is that I think there is a risk.

With the advent of AI that salespeople will take shortcuts. And I think we've seen that particularly in the way, outreach is done, sort of, you know, lead generation. You can immediately tell, you know, if this is an authentically created email or is it an AI generated, agent that's produced some sort of outreach.

I think that because it's now so easy to do the research and quick that salespeople will take shortcuts. And I think that, um, I think there is a chance that AI is actually going to dumb down the sales process, um, rather than enhance the sales process. So I think it's a, it's a topic that we need to come back to on a regular basis to check to what extent.

Are people using all of these technologies in the right way. Yeah. And ensuring that layer of human connection sits on the top and provides that magic that provides, like you were saying earlier on, the sort of the source of differentiation.

Will: Mm-hmm. Yeah, you raised a really good point.

It is about where do you want to, um, apply AI and I think what we've seen. So far is sort of okay, so I can now pump out many personalized and inverted commas emails to a huge audience, um, written by ai, and that's never gonna seem particularly authentic and it can lead to complacency for a sales professional.

Um, but the tools, and I have to say with the Aviso especially are, and, and Introhive, the, these are tools that are there to provide the salesperson with data so that they have all of the, everything in their toolkit to be more human in the right way, if you know what I mean. Yeah. Um, it kind of enables that, um, effectiveness.

Of a sales person. And, and so that's something that I've been really impressed by, from what I've seen in both platforms. Yeah.

Phil: Yeah. I'm glad you mentioned Intra Hive as well, because of course, you know, their technology, which enables you to look at sort of human relationships across, you know, very complex stakeholder engagements.

as you rightly say, provides data that can enable you to leverage, you know, those relationships in a way to. To start to enhance the services that you could potentially supply the different, uh, customers you're looking at.

Will: Yeah.

Phil: Um, and yes, with the Avis technology really there's, there's no real excuse of not turning up prepared.

Yeah. You know, for meetings. Um, so yeah, it's very exciting what these automated tools can do to help increase the productivity and efficiency and effectiveness of salespeople over time. So, for sure, it's a, you know, I'm, I'm really excited about what the future holds in store by getting the balance right between the technology and the human connection.

Will: And it'll be sort of remiss of me not to mention that we, um, throughout last year, and we're gonna continue this year to have what we call breakfast briefings. Yeah. And we've run these very, sort of informal, but in a formal location at the, it tends to be at the RAC club in London. breakfast briefings where we discuss a topic, uh.

With like-minded sort of sales leaders and it's, it's hosted by Intra Hive and Consalia. Um, but it's a great way to discuss topics like ai or it could be a number of different things. Yeah. Um, around, around a table over breakfast. Yeah. so our next one is on the 29th of January. And if, if you're interested in joining, please do, do let us know.

Yeah. And then, and then I guess the final comment I have is for anyone who's interested in the research that Phil and the Consalia team have been doing over the course of this year, we have a white paper that you can download it's on our website. We go into quite a deep level of analysis in terms of the data, um, comparing genders and things like that.

There's quite a lot of insight there. Um, so I would highly recommend anyone who's interested in downloading the white paper.

Phil, is there any other comments you want to make just before we, um, we wrap up? Plus we, we've gotta get ready for our Christmas party.

Phil: We do. Yeah. You need to capture the train quite soon.

But no, it was a, an amazing event and it, it, it was a convergence, like you say, of the global research project, exciting for us to announce the, you know, the partnership with aviso. Um, we hope to do breakfast briefing briefings also on revenue intelligence systems with Aviso next year, um, as well.

So yeah, look out, look out for the dates. Great. Well, thank you. Thank you very much. Well see you later.

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